Obama and the Polling Numbers

There has been a lot of hand wringing, and a few I told you so's about Obama's latest poll numbers and the apparent tightening of the race. Everybody is wondering why, in what would appear to be a very favorable year for the Democrats is it tight at all. Bush's favorably ratings are at around 30%, an unpopular war, high oil  prices and a rotten economy. I mean this should be a cake walk, right?

Well maybe not. Let's face it, the Republican's may have lucked into the  the best candidate to go up against us. McCain's got a 20 year brand as a "maverick" some one who goes against the grain of the the standard Republican. I'm not speaking to the truth of this brand, but the perception and there is a big difference between reality and perception. Perception tends to win in the short term until folks start paying attention. And right now I don't think the majority of the electorate is paying attention.

Next are we really expecting to much. Gallup has an interesting read on this:

One of the more puzzling questions in election polling this year is why isn't Barack Obama doing better in the polls? In a year when outgoing president George W. Bush has an approval rating around 30%, when less than 20% of Americans are satisfied with conditions in the United States, when Democrats have had the largest advantages in party ID they have enjoyed in recent memory, and when Americans have a much more positive view of the Democratic Party than of the Republican Party, Democrat Obama has held only a modest lead over Republican John McCain, averaging just 3 points among registered voters since early June.

It's possible that it's not Obama's performance in the polls that is lacking, but that the expectations for how he should be doing are too high. The high expectations for Obama are based largely on an assessment that the political environment is very favorable for the Democrats, but maybe that will not be as big a factor in this election as in other elections.

My expectation going into the year was that Democrats seemed like a safe bet to win the election, and probably by a comfortable margin in the popular vote given the political environment. While I still believe the Democrats are the favorites, I'm not convinced that Obama will win by a very big popular vote margin if he does in fact prevail. I began to have some doubts about that after seeing a presentation by a former professor of mine, Helmut Norpoth of Stony Brook University. He presented his simple election forecasting model at the American Association for Public Opinion Research meetings this spring, and predicted a close-as-can-be election between Obama and McCain, based in part on the New Hampshire primary results and in part on the party holding the White House going into the election.

Part of the explanation he gave is that non-incumbent elections tend to be very close. That made me question whether the political environment applies to non-incumbent election years, and if it does, does it apply as strongly? What do the data suggest?

Whereas a political climate explanation seems to work so well in incumbent presidential elections and midterm elections, on the surface it doesn't seem to explain the outcomes of non-incumbent elections that well, in terms of either the margin or the winner.

Read entire piece here: http://www.gallup.com/poll/109663/ReAsse ssing-Obamas-UnderPerformance-Polls.aspx

It an interesting analysis and worth the quick read. I always believed, no matter who the nominee was, it was going to tighter than the CW thought.

If we are going to win this time we are going to have to work for it! It just isn't a given.



Display:


Re: Obama and the Polling Numbers (2.00 / 0)

Yes, whom ever thought a black guy with a foriegn sounding name, after the most bruising primary in modern times, was going to open up a double digit lead against "the most popular Republican with the press" was not thinking straight.

Still, inside the polls are some disturbing trends.

McCain is better on the Economy?

If that is really true, then my take is, nominate Clinton to be VP, no matter the consequences with independents, etc.

That is her strongest issue, the belief that the Clinton times were better economically.

It's a mixed blessing, and I would prefer Wes, but it may be time to bite the bullet for the Obama team, and pick Hillary.


On Nov 4th, we elected "the smart guy" and the world celebrated!
by WashStateBlue on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 11:49:56 AM EST

Re: Obama and the Polling Numbers (2.00 / 0)

 Let Obama be Obama. It's worked so far.


"But not me personally were those cheers for"
by QTG on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 11:52:27 AM EST

Re: Obama and the Polling Numbers (2.00 / 1)

Hi QTG...

I have a lot of faith in Axelrod, and his ground game strategy.

But, what has always scared me is, the media's tendency to jump on a meme and stick to it.

The right wing press simply falls in line with the talking points.

But, Wolf and the rest of the crew, if they start saying Obama is losing, it will cascade in my opinion.

Remember, the Republics have ONE winning strategy: Make this about Obama.

If you put Hillary on the ticket, you will have Fireworks a plenty, and at this point, I am not sure that is bad....

I STILL think Barack and his team have a plan, but I saw what the media did to Gore and Kerry.

Liberal Media Bias, my fat white butt!


On Nov 4th, we elected "the smart guy" and the world celebrated!
by WashStateBlue on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 11:58:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Polling Numbers (2.00 / 2)

If you treat every situation as a life and death matter, you'll die a lot of times.  ~Dean Smith

It only seems as if you are doing something when you're worrying.  ~Lucy Maud Montgomery

Worry never robs tomorrow of its sorrow, it only saps today of its joy.  ~Leo Buscaglia

Do not anticipate trouble or worry about what may never happen.  Keep in the sunlight.  ~Benjamin Franklin

If you can't sleep, then get up and do something instead of lying there worrying.  It's the worry that gets you, not the lack of sleep.  ~Dale Carnegie

If I had my life to live over, I would perhaps have more actual troubles but I'd have fewer imaginary ones.  ~Don Herold


"But not me personally were those cheers for"
by QTG on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 12:36:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Polling Numbers (none / 0)

The last quote is so dead on...

Thanks QTG, brilliant stuff that.


On Nov 4th, we elected "the smart guy" and the world celebrated!
by WashStateBlue on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 12:38:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If Obama loses (none / 0)

We need to seriously look at changing our primary system and going to a winner take all system like the Republicans.   This splitting delegates nonsense lead to this long, brusing, divisive primary campaign that resulted in things like the Rev. Wrigth bubbling to the surface.


by RichardFlatts on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 11:54:47 AM EST

Re: If Obama loses (2.00 / 1)

We need to seriously rethink our primary system whether Obama loses or not.


by pomology on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 11:58:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If Obama loses (2.00 / 0)

First let's not go to Obama loses :)

Next the up side of the long primary and believe it or not I think there was. Is that the Obama campaign now has the best on the ground operation of any party in recent memory and certainly much much better than Kerry's.

Interesting read about it:

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?arti cle=its_his_party_08


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 12:00:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If Obama loses (2.00 / 2)

Actually have to disagree.

Rev Wright was coming to the surface anyway, it was a blessing (mixed I will grant you) that it happened when it did....

I think the winner take all system has some real problems, because you end up with CA, NY and a few states having an absolute stranglehold on the nominee?

Now, if every state was a blue as those, I would be OK with it....


On Nov 4th, we elected "the smart guy" and the world celebrated!
by WashStateBlue on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 12:01:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

People are paying attention (2.00 / 0)

as evidenced by the Rasmussen poll showing interest in the primary race to have been greater than at anytime.  The problem is that during that time, some narratives were formed about Obama that makes it hard for him to appeal to the conservative dems that are not on board with his candidancy.

I think Obama could needs to develop a narrative around his economic plan.  Paradoxically, Obama is being too specific with his economic ideas; he needs some type of catchphrase surrounding an economic policy idea that is on the level of "Drill here, drill now" or "drill, drill, drill."  Solutions for America, anyone?


by Blazers Edge on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 11:59:55 AM EST

Re: People are paying attention (2.00 / 0)

as evidenced by the Rasmussen poll showing interest in the primary race to have been greater than at anytime

Agree about primary race. However we are now into summer and the GE and I wouldn't be surprised after the wall to wall never ending primary season that a lot of voters are tuning out, out of shear election exhaustion.

Anecdotal I realize, but most people I know who aren't rabid political junkies like us are just not watching.


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 12:07:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: People are paying attention (none / 0)

The press is paying attention and they are the ones who tell the story.  Right now the prevailing press narratives,  "celebrity", "Democratic disunity", "Why is Obama underperforming" and "McCain takes the lead on Georgia" are very bad.  The people who aren't paying attention right now will hear these narratives repeated again and again in September and October.  That is bad.  Kerry lost the Presidency in August, 2004.   If Obama doesn't take back the initiative he is repeating Kerry's mistake.  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 12:16:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Polling Numbers (none / 0)

What a bunch of worriers.

Maybe what you need is some fresh air! Go outside and play.


"But not me personally were those cheers for"
by QTG on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 12:38:38 PM EST

Re: Obama and the Polling Numbers (none / 0)

From a blog i read about an email

Summary: People are fed up with MSM and covering for McCain (probably why he's up 5 points). They are asking everyone to protest by not watching the MSM for a week starting Aug 29 (McCain's VP announcement day) to Sep 5 (just in time to see Maddow start on the 8)
It's basically a sit out; they want ratings to drop and to send a msg that were not going to listen to lies.

I guess if you support, they ask to spread this msg

I don't think it will work but I'll give it a try because can we really afford to have McCain elected. I see outrage on the blogs all the time but people hardly donate or get active enough to change anything but this even the laziest person can do.


by cobsjo on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 12:43:27 PM EST

We MUST (2.00 / 2)

work ten times harder, because we DO NOT have the media on our side. They do not report fair or balanced.

We must put people power back to work!


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 12:43:34 PM EST

Re: Obama and the Polling Numbers (2.00 / 1)

The problem is the party is still divided, and nobody has done much to quell that feeling.  In fact the media and supporters on both sides flame the fires by saying Obama should stay away from Bill Clinton or Bill Clinton saying Obama is not ready to be pres, etc.

Even if former Hillary supporters will vote for Obama, they are not enthusiastic about his campaign.  He could lose, and life will go on for the vast majority of people out there.  They are not invested in an Obama victory.  And like it or not, that is roughly 1/2 of Democrats who sided with Hillary.

Also, all those "working class white voters" are tempted to vote for McCain - because they like him better, and possibly a little bit of racism to go along with that.

The primary solution to this problem would have been a unity ticket.  Maybe picking other VPs with independent appeal may work but I give it lower chances.

I think the 2 VP choices that are best are Clinton or Gore - which may still serve to unify the party.  Anyone else will be a disappointment.

Bill Clinton is the only Dem in a long time to serve 2 terms and go out with 70% approval, could probably win a landslide victory in November 2008 if it were legal for him to run, and yet he is treated as a pariah in his own party - first by Gore, then by Kerry, and now likely by Obama.  That's one of the root problems here...  just my two cents.


by mikes101 on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 12:56:55 PM EST

Re: Obama and the Polling Numbers (none / 0)

that is roughly 1/2 of Democrats who sided with Hillary.

You have some numbers or facts to support this claim? Because I certainly haven't seen anything to support it. With Obama right now getting 81% of the Democratic vote not sure you get half of Hillary's supporters not willing to vote for Obama. The only poll I've seen says 18% which is a far cry from 50%


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:20:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Polling Numbers (none / 0)

>>With Obama right now getting 81% of the Democratic vote not sure you get half of Hillary's supporters not willing to vote for Obama

Sorry just using intuition and reasoning here:

Half of 50% is a pretty large number - that's a lot of Democrats to lose right out of the gate.  Close to the 18% number you cite.

Plus there are a lot of independents who turned out to vote at caucuses and primaries.  Maybe that's another 10% of the overall electorate that may now consider McCain.

Finally there are voters that may say they are going to vote Obama, but they are not very excited about it, and may in fact not show up to vote, much less open their check books or call people to support their candidate.  These types of people COULD be used to be enlarging our base right now - instead they are just sulking or moving on with their lives.

Add up all of these factors - I believe Obama / Clinton ticket would be beating McCain by over 10% margin right now.


by mikes101 on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:39:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Polling Numbers (none / 0)

I doubt there are 'numbers' to back up the commenters statement.  Irregardless, that doesn't mean the statement has no merit.

I live in Volusia county FL, one of the bluest counties in FL.  I travel the county in my work (hence the EMS in my name), and I have seen many McCain yard signs.  I have yet to see any Obama yard sign, not even one.  To me that's observable proof of a great lack of enthusiasim, or even worse, reckless overconfidence.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:44:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Where? (none / 0)

Volusia County isn't all that blue. Kerry won it 50%-48% in 2004.

But it also depends on where you live. In 2004, where I live, I saw Bush/Cheney signs and bumper stickers ALL OVER the place...very few Kerry signs and stickers.

That was in Queens, New York, which went to Kerry 75%-25%.

Except where I lived in Queens went to Bush 75%-25%, and we have a Democratic Congressman, Democratic State Assemblyman, etc.

I did research and found out the last time a Democrat won my neighborhood was 1964.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 02:01:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Where? (none / 0)

Thanks!

I needed to know that some how my eyes were deceiving me.

Now, can you tell me that the calorie counts on the food I eat are not really what I see and in reality are much lower, so I can eat more?

I discount bumper stickers as reflective of any area because cars are mobile,and can be from anywhere.  Yard signs reflect the support in any given area much more aptly.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 02:31:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Um (none / 0)

the attitude was a little unnecessary. My point was bumper stickers and yard signs are not 100% reflective. Try talking to your neighbors and people in your area.

If I were to judge on bumper stickers and yard signs, I would've guess Kerry would lose New York City huge and so will Obama.

That won't happen, except in the little enclave where I'm from.

My point was perhaps you live in a Republican-stronghold of Volusia County


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 04:04:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Um (none / 0)

Sorry, my attitude gives me a reason to get out of bed every morning and go forth and move all over the county doing my job.  It' my sometimes irreverent sense of humor.  

I didn't base my observation on where I live, I based my observation on my movements all over the county in my line of work.  I go everywhere, but admittedly I don't go to the western part of the county too often.  I can be pretty observant in my travels over the county because I am usually sitting in the passenger seat of my unit and can pay lots of attention to what I see.

My point was that enthusiasim for Obama in one of the bluest counties in FL (and yes, I know the Kerry / Bush break, I did't claim a 'really blue' county, I claimed bluest in the county) is not here.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 04:22:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No McCain signs in East TN (none / 0)

I live in a part of the country that has voted Republican since the Civil War. Bush won my county (Blount County) 68-32. And I have yet to see a single McCain sticker or sign. I HAVE, however, seen several Obama stickers around.

This is the white South we're talking about.

But McCain will win Blount County easily.

You cannot judge an election based on yard signs alone.


by elrod on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 06:39:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Polling Numbers (none / 0)

Amazing, isn't it?

McCain has been spitting in the eyes of his base, even suggesting he'd appoint a pro-choice VP, and they don't care... they are still going to go out and vote for him anyways...

And then you have the recalcitrant Hillary supporters, who are willing to sabotage the party and the country out of petty spite...

This is why Republicans win, and why we can't even get simple democratic legislation passed in the house, 'cos Democratic party discipline is lacking, it seems, everywhere...

What I have to ask the still recalcitrant Hillary supporters (and PUMAS) is, where were y'all in February?  Did you all take a vacation?  'Cos none of you even bothered to show up... had we known in advance that you'd hold the country hostage over this person, I might have just given in to y'all...

Of course, you only made that known to us after it was too late!  Thanks! Don't come crying to us in the future, when America collapses.... you had your chance!


It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)
by LordMike on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 02:55:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Polling Numbers (none / 0)

>>where were y'all in February?

18 million voters for Hillary Clinton and this is your response?  Sad...

>>Of course, you only made that known to us after it was too late!  Thanks! Don't come crying to us in the future, when America collapses.... you had your chance!

America is not going to collapse if John McCain is elected president.  That's not my view - that's the view of probably around 90+% of the American people.  Of course, I think it would be better for Obama to be elected, but his supporters with their blinders on and insults thrown aren't helping anything.

Really - if I had asked you last fall if you would support an Obama / Clinton ticket, would you have said yes?  Remember to breathe before answering...


by mikes101 on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 04:17:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Polling Numbers (none / 0)

I really don't care...  I wasn't married to any specific candidate... who cares if they are a democrat, right?  This whole, Clinton or nothing, makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever...


It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)
by LordMike on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 05:40:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Polling Numbers (none / 0)

Oh, and, where were y'all in February... btw?  I'm still wondering about those people who were so adamant abut Clinton they'd drive up to Washington D.C. to protest getting their elections somewhat counted, yet they couldn't bother to vote during the height of primary season, in February...


It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)
by LordMike on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 05:42:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Polling Numbers (none / 0)

should read, getting their bogus, invalid elections, somewhat counted...


It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)
by LordMike on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 05:58:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Polling Numbers (none / 0)

You can't blame Clinton for the primary schedule.  I voted for Clinton in March here in Texas, which is when we were scheduled to vote.  At the end of the day, both she and Obama ended up with around 18 million votes.  And if we used Republican or Electoral College nominating rules where winner takes all, Obama would have been forced to drop out after Super Tuesday.  Arguably, the Republicans have ended up with the stronger GE candidate by their rules for the last few presidential elections.


by mikes101 on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 06:06:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Polling Numbers (none / 0)

>>who cares if they are a democrat, right?

Agreed, but not everyone thinks like us.

>>This whole, Clinton or nothing, makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever

I don't think it has anything to do with Hillary Clinton.  I think this is the nature of what happens when you have a close, protracted battle for the nomination - people get invested in their candidate - this is just human nature.  JFK / Johnson, Kennedy / Carter, etc.  When the party is split, the best way to unite the party and WIN is to represent both sides on the ticket.  To me, that is the main reason why Obama is not clobbering McCain at this point, and why he very well may lose, in spite of this being a CHANGE election when the incumbent party should be absolutely annihilated.


by mikes101 on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 06:00:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The analysis seems a bit faulty (none / 0)

Basically we have seen two somewhat similar situations in which outgoing presidents have been deeply unpopular.  Once the candidate from that president's party got crushed (1952), once the candidate from that president's party was narrowly defeated but would have been completely crushed if not for a third party candidate (1968).  After all, Wallace voters were essentially single issue and were not going to support the party that just brought them the civil rights act.  Nixon probably would have won by a comfortable 6-7% and 150 EVs without Wallace in the race.

That seems to be evidence that, absent the presence of a third party candidate siphoning votes from the democrats, we should expect the GOP candidate to get killed in this election.


John McCain: Extending SCHIP would be an "unfunded liability."
by Fuzzy Dunlop on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 12:58:45 PM EST

Re: The analysis seems a bit faulty (none / 0)

Except of course, the other 2 prior times didn't have a War Hero running with a 60% favorability rating. If I didn't get the sense that 50% of the people here are just upset to say I told you so, 30% are truly worried about their candidate, Obama, due to a poor understanding of what this election will be (a dogfight, always was going to be that way, for anyone nominated), and then maybe 15-20% are like me and see the strategy for where it's at and are not overly concerned with the numbers as much as pointing out that there is work to be done.


by Dog Chains on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:24:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The analysis seems a bit faulty (2.00 / 2)

Those aren't mutually exclusive possibilities.

You can (a) be deeply concerned by the numbers (b) draw the inference that our candidate is very much under performing given the electoral environment and (c) still be committed to working your ass off to get him elected.

I know its true, because that basically describes me.


John McCain: Extending SCHIP would be an "unfunded liability."
by Fuzzy Dunlop on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:43:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Polling Numbers (2.00 / 2)


by Glaurung on Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 02:00:39 PM EST


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